Curse

crimsonfilms · Aug 01, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

If boon is being strip from you too easy then you are not covering your enchanment properly. Decent booners expect at least 2 enchanment removal (Drain and Shatter) from one mesmer.

To counter a heavy hex enchanment removal Mesmer build, ask your Ele with Ether Prodigy to bring Holy Veil.

Shadow Shroud on a good spike team is dangerous to any build because Infuse becomes your own defense. They SS the infuser and its GG. No Prot Spirit for you. Nevertheless, droping a spiker has always been the best defense for spikers.

Blessed Light builds are great builds but are much less durable because of the self survival factor. Enchanment removals are as dangerous to them as to Boons. Without Mantra of Recall or EDrain and slow cast time, 1 mediocre mesmer and 1 warrior can own.

It is just tougher for boons because the meta is specifically targeting them. Nothing different when Natures Renewal, enchant strips, Shame, etc. are being used.

Quote:

Soul Barbs spike became prominent. And for good reason: against it, boon/prot monks were worse than useless;

And so was WoH/infuse and BLight build unless you bring specific counters like Convert Hex. Any general monk build needs help to counter SB/RI including fast cast hex removal, kiting and strong healing.

What is now the popular choice is 1 Booner and 1 BLight or HLight build.

bono · Aug 01, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Divine Boon was nerfed during the Beta weekend because of Delvish Mystism attribute. With Mystism @16 u get 8 energy and 30 health when enchantments end. Boon got nerfed to keep Delvish from getting easy energy.

When Delvish start combining Guardian, reversal of fortune and signet of piety together. A-net will have to nerf the recharge of 3 of the prot monks main skills or it will have to nerf Delvish Mystism. Delvish Mystism will be nerfed hard before its release. I think delvish mystism will only trigger off of Delvish enchanments, or the energy return will be lowered.

KamikazeChicken · Aug 01, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

Disagree - a mesmer specced with a not to unusual bar (Mantra of Recovery, Drain, Shatter) equals gg. on your boon. You get five out of twenty five seconds of boon and that's just not enough healing. Boon-prots are still strong when your opposition lets them be, but they are a disaster waiting to happen. We've started speccing five to six enchant removes in our GVG builds now and twin boon prots is starting to become GG.

1-2 mesmers have always been able to completely cripple a monk. It's now just easier to screw over the actual boon enchantment, but even while boon is down, you're as effective as a Blight monk (besides the lack of the elite, obviously). The only reason you're able to destroy boon prots is because they're probably not use to the lower healing power of blight (that's effectively what they are).

As for NR/Tranquility builds, you should be able to have your warriors run in and take it out, or get out of its range. People have been working around random NR/Tranq builds the entire season.

Amity and Truth · Aug 01, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Oh well, the point is... this is basically not meant as a nerf to Monks but moreover to prevent abuse coming from the Dervish Class. Remember that the Ether Renewal Nerf DID hit the Elementalists primarily, but was intended to prevent the abuse coming from the monk secondary.
This is the same problem, you should simply stop complaining about this "nerf". I'm quite sure people would be complaining a lot more if Dervishes were allowed to powercharge their energy within seconds by simply spamming Divine Boon.

From a monk point of view, i must admit that i'm happy to see Divine Boon finally changed. It has sadly degraded to a point where people used Boonprots everywhere simply because it is an adaptable build to every situation in GuildWars. You're just prepared to face everything with it and STILL pack a nice healing punch. If a single build however gets this dominant above others, it should be changed. Either through a collective buff of other skills which i hope won't happen (Monks are powerful enough) or through a nerf of one or two of the key skills.
And come on, 10 Second recharge is not really THAT much of a nerf. Besides you can still bring cover enchantments with you, screwing the ench remover over.

Abdul · Aug 02, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Bazza's aura got restored to 10 secs, but Zealot's and Boon retain the weekend changes.

As a monker, I must say I am very happy to see that the Boon change is permanant. A boonprot is extremely powerful and versatile with very little drawback, making other monk builds almost redundant. The change is not too severe, and I still expect to see a lot of boonprots around, but hopefully it will mean other monk builds will become more popular.

twicky_kid · Aug 02, 2006, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Lets not forget we will get new skills for the core classes when Nightfalls is released.

I hate to see the boon prot go to be honest. Its a very tough build to master. It took me about a month to get it right. I usually monk for GvG boon prot.

I love the blessed light. Energy wise its much better than a boon prot. Most of the time my energy never fell below 20. Self heals on the other hand its sux. If they even kill 1 of your monks in a 2 BL line the other will fall immediatly. Its like kicking a guy on crutches while he's moving. He needs both crutches to stay up if one falters the other goes with it.

That's the biggest problem I see with a 2 BL line. Most tactics are to shame, strip, BO, or KD one of the monks while you kill the other. In a 2 boon prot line the boon can take care of himself till the other monk is back up and running. A 2 BL monk line cannot do this.

I think in the end BL/boon will be best. If one of the guys falls the boon can take care of himself. I also think we need to change the way we play boon. Only cast boon when you need a fast massive heal. That's the only way the build might survive.

Zephyr Jackson · Aug 02, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

Shadow Shroud on a good spike team is dangerous to any build because Infuse becomes your own defense. They SS the infuser and its GG. No Prot Spirit for you. Nevertheless, droping a spiker has always been the best defense for spikers.

Name a competitive gvg guild that uses SS, i havent seen one since before iway was nerfed

Zui · Aug 02, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr Jackson

Name a competitive gvg guild that uses SS, i havent seen one since before iway was nerfed

He's not talking about Spiteful Spirit. He's talking about Shadow Shroud.

SassiLady · Aug 02, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

If boon is being strip from you too easy then you are not covering your enchanment properly. Decent booners expect at least 2 enchanment removal (Drain and Shatter) from one mesmer.

It has nothing to do with being a decent boon or not. All it really takes, is a mantra of recovery mesmer, with strips. Obviously they just changed boon back to a 1 recharge. So obviously as I stated earlier, strips won't be as dangerous as they were when I got owned by that mantra of recovery mesmer. Anyways, we'll have to just wait and see when Nightfall comes out.

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 02, 2006, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

I love the blessed light. Energy wise its much better than a boon prot. Most of the time my energy never fell below 20. Self heals on the other hand its sux. If they even kill 1 of your monks in a 2 BL line the other will fall immediatly. Its like kicking a guy on crutches while he's moving. He needs both crutches to stay up if one falters the other goes with it.

In my experience as a warrior, BL monks are much tougher to spike than boon prots because almost every one of them runs Distortion. The BL build allows you a lot of spare slots for Distortion and E-management because your hex and condition removal are all rolled up into one. I've gained a new respect for B-light recently, largely for that reason.

On the other hand, B-light monks are pretty weak against spikes in general. They don't have booned reversal to save a target, and with GoH as a primary heal Infuse would become unreliable. With warrior + assist spikes still dominating GvG, I can't see a backline being too effective without at least one WoH or Boon Prot.

Jagan Vastary · Aug 02, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassiLady

So we GVG tonight with a boon prot, the opposing team has a mesmer, with three strips. Strips boon, thats ten seconds of down time. Put it back up, strips it again...another ten seconds. Put it up, strips it again....and yet, ANOTHER ten seconds of down time. For an grand total of 30 seconds, completely useless aside from damage reduction from spells like reversal, and good ol prot spirit etc etc.

A mesmer with access to a monk for 30 seconds will really rip into any monk, not just a boon/prot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

The BL build allows you a lot of spare slots for Distortion and E-management because your hex and condition removal are all rolled up into one.

That's what I thought at first, but after playing the build for a while, B-Light is really too expensive as a hex or condition removal + heal. Most of the time, if you take off a hex with it, you will just get a cover hex, and the only condition worth taking off with it is deep wound. If you take off a hex and condition, as well as heal the target, its a pretty effective elite, but the situations where you can get a hex, condition, and big heal aren't often enough to ditch your condition removal. Inspired hex is mostly energy management, not really an effective anti-hex tool.

The strength of B-Light is the flexibility of the skill. Its a skill that can do a lot of different things, but if you aren't doing all three of those things at once (heal, condition and hex removal), its really rather subpar compared to other elites you could take.

Byron · Aug 02, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Boon prots are still the best option for three reasons: cast time, energy management, and Contemplation of Purity. No other build has two 1/4 second heals, nor affords the use of elite e-management, nor has practical use of CoP.

In my experience, blessed light monks are much more vulnerable to damage and mesmer pressure. Hex distortion or frenzy hex breaker, gg IMHO.

God Rose X · Aug 02, 2006, 06:26 AM // 06:26

The thing with boon prots is there all pretty much one skilled base characters. If you got rid of one skill then the char is pretty much no tusuable . And yes i know there is like one or two you could get rid of. But Boon monks are a bit to well powerful i guess the word is. I mean one on one with a boon prot yes i can beat them even though that sounds not true.

Divine Boon is just a simple monk skill that will and im sure will be replaced to a new version of boon prot monks.

Boon prot monk are a very good build and yes then are very good healers.
Gw admins just findly said there getting to powerful time for us to find out a new build. Which im sure alot of people have already been trying to do.

Divine Boomn is just one skill. And yes its pretty much the build but there is always another way you can go. And well Lol me and my bro found this way. And when you start GvG's us you will find out that it is very difficult indeed to beat. But anyways.

There are a vaulable asset to any team and i dont really care if they stay or die. Its not like there the whole game.

Elrodien · Aug 02, 2006, 09:33 AM // 09:33

I think the Divine Boon recharge time change had nothing to do with Boon Prots being overpowered but as Amnity and Truth states, it was to stop the Dervish/Monk from abusing it.

In the process, its upset a lot of boon prot monks! It may make it more difficult to keep boon up, but you adapt and learn to deal with it.

It certainly makes MoR more interesting as an energy management skill.

]SK[ · Aug 02, 2006, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Any ideas why these skill changes were in place anyway this weekend?

Blow Up Doll · Aug 02, 2006, 10:15 AM // 10:15

The Boon recharge has now been reset to 1s - a-net were just a bit slow in doing it for some reason.

Amity and Truth · Aug 02, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ]SK[

Any ideas why these skill changes were in place anyway this weekend?

In case you skipped my above post that allready explained the whole "nerf" Situation (like almost everyone else did). Here is a link that will maybe make you understand: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Mysticism

SassiLady · Sep 14, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

So, I guess I can bring this thread back to life again after the nerf today. Now it's painstakingly obvious that boons will soon be no more. First they nerf the recharge, which I might add was bad enough, but to make things worse they nerfed the amount of healing, max 60. That's very depressing to me.

Also if any of you still have ANY doubts, take a look at this link

http://guildwarsleaked.tripod.com/skills.txt

I know it's just rumors, but alot of what it shows just happened etc.

JR · Sep 14, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Actually I ran a Boon Prot in a few GvGs today. I could feel the slightly lessened power, but it was still pretty solid. Even against a team with heavy Mesmer hate on me, it didn't feel much more painfull than it used to.

LightningHell · Sep 15, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

I don't see Boons being completely obsolete because of the 10s recharge and somewhat lessened heal...